Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[red&blue]

The difference is the line . If you look at Limericks in game management you can see Kinnerk knows the game inside out . What changes to make and what way to line out . There is no panic and it all flows smoothly. It seems like Kiely sits back and lets him do what needs to be done . This is the standard now . I’m not really sure about the Waterford fella as a coach. Maybe Ryan doesn’t trust him and is overriding him and that’s why we are slow to make changes etc.
It’s just seems off looking at it compared to Limerick.
If Ryan does stay he needs to bring in a diff background team.

The difference on the line between us and Limerick is night and day. And the reason it is is one man Paul Kinnerk, he has created a team in the proper sense of the word with every player working for the good of the team on and off the ball. When things need to be changed in game it’s Kinnerk who is in Kiely’s ear telling him what needs to be done.
Meanwhile we have a coach who it seems has little or no input into changes and tactics during games. Now I’m not sure if he’s the right man or not but he doesn’t seem to have much say anyway
If Kiely goes this year and Limerick don’t appoint Kinnerk manager i would be making a bline to Kinnerks house and pursuading him to come to cork

 

[Crusty Ring]

I think the big question that needs to be asked and maybe we need to wait until the end of the championship to find out the answer.

Have management gotten the most out of this group of players?

I think at this point in time the answer would be No, I’m a fan of PR and was delighted with his appointment but for whatever reason this group has underachieved (so far)

I hope he can pull this out of the fire because not getting out of Munster 2 years in a row is unacceptable for any Cork team.

The thing that kills me is I know they are better than what they have showed so far.

 

[AllCork32]

Jesus talk about putting words in my mouth
I never said ban them at all.
I was on the terrace I saw 4 people of all ages being brought down the tunnel who were crying, one person with and the whole side of their face and neck was scalded red. The lads who got escorted out by the Guards went down the nearest tunnel and they definitely were not aided by St. John's Ambulance.

How you're trying to spin it on me trying to suggest I said ban them is ridiculous. What if that was your son or daughter, brother or sister who got a belt of a smoke bomb/flare. Would you not be concerned with that?
I think flares and smoke bombs create atmosphere and add to the occasion.
My issue is them throwing them down ontop of their fellow supporters.

I've no issue with young fellas having a few drinks and setting off flares once they've a bit of cop on.
There was no cop on, Sunday.

That's what the post the post I referenced said that you respond to defending it, that u16 must be accompanied by an adult, what sort of 16 year old wants to drag their mam into a a terrace with beoirs all over the shop, they will just stop going and our game will die.

The post I originally refered to said they wanted an under 16 year old to be accompanied in the stands (different wording of banning them).

As I said I was in the balckrock end and the only people to get brought down the tunnel were the guards bringing down 16 year old lads.

 

[Matlock]

That's what the post the post I referenced said that you respond to defending it, that u16 must be accompanied by an adult, what sort of 16 year old wants to drag their mam into a a terrace with beoirs all over the shop, they will just stop going and our game will die.

The post I originally refered to said they wanted an under 16 year old to be accompanied in the stands (different wording of banning them).

As I said I was in the balckrock end and the only people to get brought down the tunnel were the guards bringing down 16 year old lads.

16 year olds have to bring their mams ( or aunts, I get this job a lot!) to gigs and it doesn't stop them going

 

[ThatFella]

That's what the post the post I referenced said that you respond to defending it, that u16 must be accompanied by an adult, what sort of 16 year old wants to drag their mam into a a terrace with beoirs all over the shop, they will just stop going and our game will die.

The post I originally refered to said they wanted an under 16 year old to be accompanied in the stands (different wording of banning them).

As I said I was in the balckrock end and the only people to get brought down the tunnel were the guards bringing down 16 year old lads.

Apologies, I was just referring to having a bit of cop on is all and the carry on. I've no issues with young people in terrace.
As I said we were all young at one stage but the carry on out of young people at matches lately is becoming a worrying trend, the 'soccer hooliganism' style from these young fellas. At least in the Hooliganism groups in soccer they don't through flares or smoke bombs down on top of fellow supporters.
As I said we all snuck a few pints at 16/17 before games and were delighted but now you see them swinging bottles of vodka and getting sick and smashing glass.
That simply does not have a place in GAA.
That completely changes the tone of my message.

The Terrace is normally where the best atmosphere is, yet there was barely a chant from the Blackrock end Sunday. So outside of any other issues that's a worry as well. The young fellas under the scoreboard were normally the young fellas to start off 'OH 2 BE A REBEL' and the Clap with 'REBELS' and by them starting it off it travelled around the ground.
But they're too busy trying to create stupid soccer style chants no one knows and down a bottle of vodka.
In the past before a big game when the big flag or the jersey was pulled out in the terrace with a flares, by god that got everyone chanting. I literally got goosebumps typing that.
In a few years I want my kids to be in the Terrace to experience that atmosphere and have the same feeling we all had and then let them off with their buddies at 15/16.
However I worry that it's going to die out due to the carry on.

Cork Hurling Supporters Page had a post up as well where someone was giving out about the carry on too and someone else commented on post they complained to Guards about flares and they said 4 people received treatment for minor burns and smoke inhalation (it wasn't me that commented that) but matches the same amount of people I saw as well.
Those that required first aid were walked from the behind the goal by a steward and at times a first aider up the endline/front of terrace through the gate under tunnel that seperates the Blackrock Terrace and North Stand.
Fellas that had the flares were ripped down the nearest tunnel by the guards not calmly walked by a steward/first aider the whole way up.

 

[ThatFella]

I get that Myler and Kingston got us further in the Championship BUT Munster was NOT the dogfight then that it has since become imho. We now have the Limerick juggernaut, which wasn't in place for Myler - think he was gone when Limerick won their first in 40 odd years, nor the League Champions.

Kingston, alone among Cork managers that I can think of, got two bites at the cherry. So not sure you're comparing like with like.

That said, I've been disappointed with PR and his management team - I confess I was expecting better from them both in team selection and particularly in-game management.

Fingers crossed it all works out for PR and Cork

Munster was always that bit more competitive regardless. Yes it's a dog fight now as everyone upping their game.
He got two bites of the cherry as the players wanted him, the county board wanted him and a lot of supporters wanted him. His first term was deemed a success and was carried on by Meyler to be fair to him and he was asked back again.
Pat Ryan inherited the spine of great team, the back of an All-Ireland final in 2021 where we learned a lot in terms of tactics, S&C and hurling. Limerick peaked in the final. We probably peaked in the Semi Final and were exhausted. Your Joe Soaps in the street like myself who are no experts could see that.
If we can see it I'm sure the powers that be could see it.
Pat Ryan won u20's titles, this was the hope of the next step that would guide us up the steps of the Hogan.
Minus maybe 2 or 3 players from PR the rest of the team where transitioned by Kingston/Meyler who put in a lot of work.
Yes some of the U20's might not be up to the standard but we have not seen enough of them either.
So I think it is fair to compare like to like.

Yes team selection and game management is what's letting us down to be honest and the final buck stops with PR and and his management team.
As I said I will apologise and eat my words if we get to an All-Ireland final and I do really hope I am wrong and really do hope to eat my words.
But we cannot be dropping the standards, 1 win in 6 unfortunately is not good enough, especially when you're beat on the line as well as the pitch.

 

[Twiceasnice97]

Is this some kind of drunken seer advice for the poor relations in Cork?

Nope , it's a hurling opinion based on evidence.
I was very impressed with Ryan's decision to pick lads like the Roches as underage manager.
I believed that the penny was dropping. When he backed him last year I thought, here we go, a cork manager who is picking a team with varied parts.
Then I went to see the munster league game with Lehane playing and thought this fella has lost his nerve.

Cork supporters and pundits only value lads like timmy mccarthy pa cronin and bill Cooper after they are gone.

Roche and O Connell should be in the Cork team in my view, I am glad they are not.
If you want to see why watch the clare players chase Joyce and Barrett leading to the missed goal compared to the Cork players chasing Ryan before o donnells goal.
Those kind of lads set a tone that others then tend to follow.

The post was never meant for hysterical spanners like yourself waving your little corky flag

 

[SoundMan]

The difference is the line . If you look at Limericks in game management you can see Kinnerk knows the game inside out . What changes to make and what way to line out . There is no panic and it all flows smoothly. It seems like Kiely sits back and lets him do what needs to be done . This is the standard now . I’m not really sure about the Waterford fella as a coach. Maybe Ryan doesn’t trust him and is overriding him and that’s why we are slow to make changes etc.
It’s just seems off looking at it compared to Limerick.
If Ryan does stay he needs to bring in a diff background team.

For so many years, maybe even decades, that used to be Cork's strength.
Shrewd guys on the line who knew the game inside out, like the Silver Fox, to make a change (ever before bringing on subs) that would lift both players swapped. Might be a swap of the corner back and the wing-back, or a corner-forward coming out, or whatever but the cuteness to know what particular changes to make and knowing that their men on the pitch would benefit from being moved correctly, won us so many tight matches down the years.

I can recall watching various tight games when Cork were behind by a couple of points at half time and being very confident they'd have the wherewithal to win the tight game, which they almost inevitably did. There was never any panic, just a calm assurance that the line knew instinctively what changes were needed, and would make them.

Unfortunately that nous on the line alas appears to be gone. And it's something that's built up over years of confidence from it working - not panicking, not hooking a guy who's started poorly, but rather moving him in the hope/expectation that a new challenge for him is almost wiping the slate clean. "We know you're better than you've been doing, we've confidence in you so we're going to give you a different task, repay our confidence" kinda thing. If he's bad in the different position you can hook him then but too often imho we let guys in a position they're clearly struggling in, and give them "one last chance" only for the pattern to be inevitably repeated and they have to be subbed then, rather than give them a second chance in a different position where they and the team could prosper.

Of course when you're moving a guy, you need to be confident that it won't upset the balance of the team but generally you can have players swap position without it upskuttling them or the team - most of the players will have played in more than one position anyway. Moving the player who's started poorly won't make him any worse, so it's generally worth a try.

 

[Twiceasnice97]

What a load of nonsense.

We matched Clare physically in that game before going down to 14 and probably win it without the sending off.

Same against Clare, Limerick and Tipp last year.

Take your obscure fantasies elsewhere please.

That's a bit of a stretch though you could make a case for it.

After all ye were 7 up but we completely took over and the sending off free was the equaliser.

Kingston hit a point but other than that the Cork subs struggled and Coleman, Meade and cahalane arguably were involved in big incidents that served Cork poorly.

Coleman started the row after Reidys shit housing with the sideline, meade got burned for Fitzgeralds goal and Cahalane gave away a poor free under a puck out and missed a half chance for a goal.

On clares side leen dominated o flynn and shahagher got a perfectly good goal that I can't understand being disallowed

 

[SoundMan]

16 year olds have to bring their mams ( or aunts, I get this job a lot!) to gigs and it doesn't stop them going

Yeah, but they know you smoked dope back in the day so they probably think they'll have more leeway with you