Cork u20 Football 2024

[JimmyBarrySmurph]

Liam Lyne a great competition, agreed and so would an inter divisional minor championship if you could find a place for it in the calendar ( not easy) .. but if the suggestion is it should replace development squads when everybody else ( including Kerry ) are working with that model well then ….. but schools are vital and Kerry have 3 / 4 schools that supply the bulk of their players to inter county , easier to integrate that number into development squad system , in Cork many many more ,

In Kerry they dont really mean or use development squads like we do.
In terms of development priority
The schools come first. Kerry have GDAs in the secondary schools. I’ve a friend living in Tralee who told me the GDA is almost like a member of staff in the secondary schools there he is around so much during the week.
Clubs/amalgamations are 2nd.
The “development squads” 3rd and very long way off the first priority. They are like get yo getters to fulfill fixtures that’s all. Last year I was told they rarely meet up to train etc.
In contrast the schools are run like semi pro operations (but like the rugby schools here) with some pre school morning, weekend and holiday training sessions, training camps etc

 

[Killyoursons]

You’ve made my point for me there, perhaps with realizing it..
Out of the brothers coaching in Fachtna’s came the following Cork players Cahalane’s, Clearys, Maguires & Collin’s of Castlehaven,
Small Mick, 2 Davises, O Donovan, McCarthy & O Driscolls from O Donovan Rossa
Collin’s & O Sullivan Bros Illen Rovers
Some Bantry blues
Pat Hegarty Caheragh and a hatful of other Cork players that I can’t recall now.
I think one year Cork minor team was half made up of players from St Fachtna’s.

And every one of those clubs above were Junior A in the 70s before that brother/priest and I think a local man got going down there in that school. These are simple facts.

You can say the exact same for CCR here in the city.
Both are now gone effectively.

I know I’m pushing on age wise but I’m not for one minute glorifying the past. I just stongly believe for us to get back to winning ways at senior we need to change our player coaching model. Due to the sheer physical and massive numbers I think that development model should be more localized than what it is right now and that we don’t form county panels until the year of minor.
The school system is there ready to be utilized by Cork GAA.
In other counties the schools are the feeder system to county teams.

Don't know about football, but I thought in hurling Cork have for a few years now been using regional panels rather than a single county panel? Pretty sure a few years ago when we had multiple teams in the Forristal and other underage tournaments, they would in effect be regional teams - just like in the Celtic Challenge now (where Cork are one of only two counties to not field a single county-wide team).

More generally, I would be perfectly happy with GDAs liaising more with school teams than seems to be the case. At school, at least with the right facilities and support of the staff, there is the opportunity for boys to practice far more, be it before or after class or during lunch breaks. The key role of GDAs here should be to make sure the practice and coaching is as good as it can be. But I would hope that this coaching can go on alongside, rather than competing with, training with development squads.

 

[JimmyBarrySmurph]

Don't know about football, but I thought in hurling Cork have for a few years now been using regional panels rather than a single county panel? Pretty sure a few years ago when we had multiple teams in the Forristal and other underage tournaments, they would in effect be regional teams - just like in the Celtic Challenge now (where Cork are one of only two counties to not field a single county-wide team).

More generally, I would be perfectly happy with GDAs liaising more with school teams than seems to be the case. At school, at least with the right facilities and support of the staff, there is the opportunity for boys to practice far more, be it before or after class or during lunch breaks. The key role of GDAs here should be to make sure the practice and coaching is as good as it can be. But I would hope that this coaching can go on alongside, rather than competing with, training with development squads.

The massive flaws with development squads and underage academies across all sports are well reported.
Take Hurling, in Cork at 15 years of age the panel is already down to circa 100 across 4 regional teams. That’s from a potential pool of 4500 players.
Numbers have to be cut as the goal is a Cork minor panel of 36 players who are only 16 years old.
A lot of those 36 get discarded then after U17 as it’s a 3 year age at U20s.
This specialization does not produce the best players by adult level.
The best method is to keep the net as wide as possible for a long as possible and the schools system which would keep that net at about 500-600 until 19 years old targeting a Harty or B is the best way to do that

 

[Midcorkgael]

What did help Cork football aswell over the years with schools that it is was the Cork VEC team, gave players from schools who weren't eligible for the Corn Ui Mhuire a platform to play in an inter county setup at a fairly hight level. A lot of these school may of not put much emphasis on football or may of not had the numbers but it gave the strong footballers from that school an opportunity to give themselves a platform to impress to county minor selectors. I always thought when they combined a lot of these schools who may of been A or B in the VEC are now down in C D grades and the same effort isent put into them or exposure wheras when you had the Cork VEC team.

I remember when the likes of Brogans or Clonn CC were going strong you had a huge number of crossover with those teams and the minors and allowed them build relationships and a form of a team spirit before the minors. I'm sure the likes of Brian Hurley and a few more down that neck of the woods who never went to Fachtnas and the likes of.Ruiairi Deane Aidan Walsh, Lorcan McLoughlin, Kevin Canty just to name a few off my head all won all ireland VOC playing for Cork. Was a shame it was done away with especially for a big county like Cork.

 

[bluesball]

in 2013 both E Cadogen and A Walsh were persuaded to give up football and join the hurlers,both didnt play or come on against Clare in the final and the replay. Would we have won in 2010 without them,NO..

 

[bluesball]

Would the KCB organise a concert in Killarney forcing Kerry to play a championship match to be played in Tralee

 

[jams]

in 2013 both E Cadogen and A Walsh were persuaded to give up football and join the hurlers,both didnt play or come on against Clare in the final and the replay. Would we have won in 2010 without them,NO..

It's what annoys me the most. And I get how amateurs do what amateurs do - and people play the code they want - and I also get how I need to be more Zen and not get annoyed.

 

[Shabby]

I don’t really understand why every defeat needs a massive inquest and deeper reasoning behind it. I’d get it if we had no success at all in recent times but that isn’t the case.

I felt we had a fierce chance at half time yesterday despite not playing that well but having a wind behind us in the second half. Those first 10 mins after half time were disastrous. The response was fairly positive but chances were missed and the damage was done. I didn’t feel like Kerry were miles ahead in any department other than physicality and the minors were the same the night before.

There are a few in the bunch who look like they have serious senior potential, mainly the goalkeeper, Sheedy and O’Connor.

 

[Killyoursons]

The massive flaws with development squads and underage academies across all sports are well reported.
Take Hurling, in Cork at 15 years of age the panel is already down to circa 100 across 4 regional teams. That’s from a potential pool of 4500 players.
Numbers have to be cut as the goal is a Cork minor panel of 36 players who are only 16 years old.
A lot of those 36 get discarded then after U17 as it’s a 3 year age at U20s.
This specialization does not produce the best players by adult level.
The best method is to keep the net as wide as possible for a long as possible and the schools system which would keep that net at about 500-600 until 19 years old targeting a Harty or B is the best way to do that

The first thing I'd say in response to this is that having regional development squads needn't be to the exclusion of schools. At the moment in hurling at least Cork have both, up to U17 (Celtic Challenge). There's a fair question as to whether there could be a better balance between them, but it is not clear that we must choose either one or the other. As regards numbers having to be be cut, sure - but I don't see how that can be avoided as long as Cork are fielding a single team in the minor championship each year.

More generally, when you say that development squads and academies across all sports have massive flaws, could you give some specifics, or maybe point me towards some interesting books or articles? I would have thought that, e g., La Maisa or the underage systems in New Zealand rugby both work pretty well (not every year, but over a longer span of time), and I would have thought each of those systems is very selective and involves a very high degree of specialisation on the part of the boys who enter them.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Would the KCB organise a concert in Killarney forcing Kerry to play a championship match to be played in Tralee

If they had a massive stadium debt they would.