President Trump 2016-2024 - Official Discussion Thread

Clinton vs Trump for 2016 POTUS

  • Clinton

    Votes: 108 46.6%
  • Trump

    Votes: 124 53.4%

  • Total voters
    232
How does a bank loan you money based on your own valuation? Is there not due diligence in NY for banking institutes? Surely they get a 3rd party valuation

@GadSaad
No person irrespective of your political orientation should support the grotesque judgment that was rendered recently against
@realDonaldTrump
. If I understood the case, Trump asked to borrow money from the bank and in doing so, he provided a valuation of his real estate assets as collateral. Apparently, the valuation was inflated and this is somehow a "crime" even though the filed papers made sure to remind the bank that they should conduct their due diligence (which presumably they did). Thus, they agreed to the valuation, and granted the loan, which Trump subsequently paid. Did I get all of the substantive details correctly? If so, this is beyond banana republic parody. Let us suppose that I decide to put my house up for sale. I list it at X knowing full well that the likely value is really X - Y. However, I take a shot to see what the market will bear. Could the government come and say: Well you knowingly inflated the list price of your home, and even though someone decided to pay X for it, we are suing you on their behalf. It's unreal. The death of negotiation tactics. The death of the free market. The death of private enterprise between two parties. The oversight of all commercial interactions by Big Daddy Government. This politicization of the justice system is breathtakingly dangerous.
I love the hyperbole here.

No, the writer did not get the substantive details correct.

First of all, Trump inflated the value of his properties for the loans and deflated the values of the same properties at the same time when paying his taxes. He claimed that buildings that had rent controlled apartments did not have rent controlled apartments. He claimed that his own apartment was three times larger than it actually was. He claimed that buildings under construction were bringing in income. Among many other things. These are all frauds. They are all illegal. And they are not simply cases of "who knows what the actual market value is". (And the fact that market products fluctuate almost daily does not mean that they fluctuate wildly daily and that no one has any idea what the value of something is. That's simply nonsense.)

He did this to get better loan rates from banks that would have charged him more had they known what he knew. He fraudulently passed on his risks to the bank. He happened to get away with it for a while. Should the bank have figured it all out in advance? The bank is working in a large part with information provided by the client. They have no choice. Part of the reason that there are fraud laws is that banks can't see everything completely separate from information they receive from the client, contrary to what the writer seems to think. It's like saying that if someone withholds significant information from the tax authorities to pay less taxes, it's the government's fault for not catching him. It's also like saying that if I run red lights all the time, I should get to argue that since I didn't hit anyone it shouldn't matter.

Most of the Crash of 2009 came from various entities hiding the real value of their assets. It worked for a while. Then it didn't. And in the particular case of Trump, Trump was president of the United States. When he is inaugurated, he vows to uphold the law, and not just the laws he likes. IMO, they didn't hit him hard enough in New York. They should have shut him down.

Finally, if the writer is so free market oriented, he should personally try what Trump did. Make up assets to use as collateral for loans and hide assets from the government when filing his taxes and see what happens. That's what banana republics do. FAFO.
 
How does a bank loan you money based on your own valuation? Is there not due diligence in NY for banking institutes? Surely they get a 3rd party valuation

@GadSaad
No person irrespective of your political orientation should support the grotesque judgment that was rendered recently against
@realDonaldTrump
. If I understood the case, Trump asked to borrow money from the bank and in doing so, he provided a valuation of his real estate assets as collateral. Apparently, the valuation was inflated and this is somehow a "crime" even though the filed papers made sure to remind the bank that they should conduct their due diligence (which presumably they did). Thus, they agreed to the valuation, and granted the loan, which Trump subsequently paid. Did I get all of the substantive details correctly? If so, this is beyond banana republic parody. Let us suppose that I decide to put my house up for sale. I list it at X knowing full well that the likely value is really X - Y. However, I take a shot to see what the market will bear. Could the government come and say: Well you knowingly inflated the list price of your home, and even though someone decided to pay X for it, we are suing you on their behalf. It's unreal. The death of negotiation tactics. The death of the free market. The death of private enterprise between two parties. The oversight of all commercial interactions by Big Daddy Government. This politicization of the justice system is breathtakingly dangerous.
I didn't pay all that attention at the time to the case but I find it fascinating. Another take from "Mr Wonderful"



Big fan of Laura's, she is much better than Abby Philips ❤️
 
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I didn't pay all that attention at the time to the case but I find it fascinating. Another take from "Mr Wonderful"



Big fan of Laura's, she is much better than Abby Philips ❤️
I think that the main purpose of regulation is to prevent corporations from transferring their own risks and liabilities on to other people. Of course some investors aren't going to like this. But it's part of the libertarian scourge that claims that somehow "the unregulated market" is going to make all transactions transparent and will heal itself. Which is all nonsense.
 
Jez, he is 82 :lol!:
There needs to be retirement age on these lads, they are coming from different generations.
It is what it is, the bigger problem is that he had a choice back in 2016, with Trump and he chose to sit on his hands. He had another bigger though easier choice after Jan 6th, and he could killed Trump's chances of running again but he funked it. His fear was that the gop would be in opposition for a generation or more if he did that to Trump. The reality is that Trump's driving people away anyway but the implosion is going to be huge. He could done the right thing for the US, saved some credibility and moved on to fight on a slightly centred ground.
 
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